Interview by Max Harrison-Caldwell

Earlier this year, I called up Josh Stewart to ask about the vitality of the traditional full-length skate video. A little recap of our conversation appeared in Skateboarding’s New Rules, but there wasn’t nearly enough space to pack in all of Josh’s wit and wisdom. Now, hot off the premiere of Static VI, we wanted to share the convo as a condensed and edited Q&A. Read on for the full prognosis of skateboarding’s holiest art form.

Do you remember the first time you heard someone say full-lengths are dead?

I feel like it was somewhere around 2009, 2010. It feels like that was around the advent of online edits. Maybe more like 2010 to 2012.

There were a few of those high-production standalone video parts around that time — obviously the Dylan part, but then there was also a highly anticipated Shane O'Neill solo part. And there was the P Rod part where he skates to “Power” and does nollie late flip crook on the bench. And I started hearing, like, this is the future, you know, six minute parts with credits.

The future is now. P-Rod in *Me, Myself and I.*

Yeah, that’s funny, I don’t really remember any of those except for the Dylan part but that’s definitely the time frame where it started feeling like the online part was becoming the new standard. But it's been interesting because, since then, it's gone in these waves. People started saying “full-length videos are obsolete,” and there was definitely a big dip for a while. But some people kept making them. As I was finishing Static IV, I had always planned on releasing it only on DVD, even though people were saying “you're not going to sell many!” But then it eventually sold surprisingly well. And soon after, Isle’s Vase video came out and the first Polar video came out, both on DVD, and people really supported them as well. It proved that people were still happy to support a properly done full length.

The industry was saying that the DVD was dead, but independent filmmakers and small brands challenged that, and they showed the skate industry that there’s still a place for a strong project on a DVD. I think at that point there had been so much online content that skaters were hungry for something that felt more meaningful, something that didn’t come and go in just 24 hours.

There are 15 or 20-minute videos that come out all the time now that have credits, and some of them even have full, separated parts, instead of being montage style. Do those count as full-lengths?

Yeah, those 18-minute edits, where it's just footage to music — they’re like “full-length lite.” I still respect the effort but to me, a full-length should be closer to 30 mins. And most of those online videos nowadays just jump straight into skating, there's no intro, no concept or unique title design. They might put a basic title font, you know, with an insane name like “Shit Cat” or whatever, but that’s it.

I understand, most people don't have the patience for an intro anymore. But the classic form — you know, the videos that set the tone for what a full-length should be — had unique intros and had more than just a name title before each person's part. They allowed the filmmaker to insert more of their creativity and style into a project.

I'm a little more critical of it. I see the full length format as more of a sacred thing, you know, as something that should always continue. The full-length should be something that never dies, even if it's not profitable or highly supported.

John Igei closing out the first *Static* video.

Just for fun, let's try to come up with a list of characteristics of a full-length video — an orthodox, traditional, undoubtable full-length video. It's gotta have an intro. It's gotta have separate parts. It can't just be like a 20-minute-long edit. What else?

I mean, yeah, I think a classic full-length video should be like a book. It can have its own creative structure but essentially it should have a beginning, middle, and end. It should have an introduction that establishes a theme or vibe, at least a few full parts and I personally think it should be at least 25 minutes.

Every skater, even one that’s had six full parts, is remembered by one main part, you know? There's that one part that just really captures a feeling from the audience and the skater was maybe at their peak of their drive to film and whatever. A full-length should at least provide the opportunity for one of those parts to happen for the skaters in the video. And when you just make it something that's montage-y, it doesn't, in my opinion, give the skater the proper platform to have that part that we remember them for.

Oh, and I really think a full-length needs to have name titles. Most of the edits these days have countless skaters in them with no name titles. Who's gonna go do the research and go to the end of the video to dig through a list of like 40 names and try to piece it together like, “Okay, so the 17th skater in that montage was……Billy Bojangles?” You know what I mean? The purpose of the video is to get these guys seen, and then you're gonna rob them of their name title? That trend kinda pisses me off. Haha, sorry, it just kills me. Because I hate making name titles but I just feel like it’s our duty as the editors to give the skaters their due credit.

Yeah, and it's like 30 kids in patterned beanies with t-shirts on long sleeves. You're like, "Ohhh, he's the dude that did the cross-locked 5050, riiiight."

Everybody's a video maker now. It's like the way Instagram made everybody a “photographer.” People can make whatever they want, you know, but there’s a difference between a video that could’ve been edited on your phone versus a well crafted full-length. You see those lists these days — every website and magazine has to do this now — where it’s like “the best videos of the last 20 years!” or whatever. And there are things in there where you’re like, “Dude, that was basically just a two-minute commercial” or “that was a six-minute montage with just a song placed over skate footage.” The skating might be amazing, but if we're celebrating the craft of video making, there should be more things taken into consideration. Like, was that a video or just a song over some footage with, like, the name “Kinky Rat” displayed on screen in the beginning in Comic Sans?

The weird thing about all of these short, 5-10 minute edits is that it almost guarantees that it's going to be forgotten in a few days. But I feel like if there's a physical copy of something, it lasts in the memory of greater skateboarding for a little bit longer. Because there's that little reminder sitting on your shelf.

You started Theories of Atlantis in what, 2010? Were you selling DVDs right away?

Well, the Theories of Atlantis website has been up since 2007. I started it as a blog site to just write about skateboarding, conspiracy stuff, and to promote Static III while I was finishing it. And then I had a little web store section where I sold my own videos but I was also carrying other indie skate videos from filmmakers whose work I liked or that I thought should be seen. That was the only thing on our site for years — we were a DVD seller before anything else.

How have you seen DVD sales change over the years?

DVDs always sold slowly but consistently, but I'd say there was a downturn around 2013. That's when everybody was saying the DVD is definitely dead, you know. But then there would be a significant upturn when we’d get a strong, anticipated DVD like Vase or a rad independent video that wasn’t easy to find. Over time I’d get five copies of an indie DVD, and they'd sell out quickly, and then I’d get 10 more and they’d sell out, you know. It got to where we'd go through 30 copies of an indie video, even stuff that I thought wasn't the strongest or that wasn’t from well known filmers or skate scenes. But I think people wanted to support something that felt a little more organic and independent.

In the last two years, DVD sales have definitely gone down. And I think it's just that so few people own a DVD player anymore. But when the LENZ III DVD came out, we didn't even announce it, and we sold like 30 copies overnight. And then we ended up doing three orders from Japan and probably sold over 150 copies off the site. So it's always just this little wave that comes and goes. But there's always an underground network of skaters who seem to want to support strong videos or unique projects from skate scenes or filmers they don’t get to see enough from. So just when it looks like the full-length and the DVD might be dying off some new project pops up and proves that to not be the case.

When did you start to notice that big companies weren't releasing physical copies of their videos anymore?

It’s almost been ten years since bigger brands just abandoned the DVD format as a whole. One thing I significantly remember was when Real put out a full-length video on DVD and it came free, shrink-wrapped with every board. That's like, Darrell Stanton era, you know, so that was probably like 2006. And that was kind of the first sign of bigger companies saying, "Okay, this is strictly a promotional tool. It’s more important to get this distributed widely than to recoup money." But I think when online videos really started to become the norm and companies really mostly started to abandon physical copies was around 2012. Maybe that's what the Mayans were predicting all this time.

That sounds like a theory of Atlantis right there. From where you're standing as a distributor of these underground scene videos, is that enthusiast market of people who want little trophies on their shelves big enough to sustain skate DVD sales?

Oh, no, definitely not. It's tough because if something is popular enough to allow the filmmaker to make his money back, then those [underground collectors] wouldn't be as interested. It's really rare for something to be popular and still considered cool and meaningful enough for people to want to collect it and own it.

There are a few videos, like Eastern Exposure 3, where it's seen as super core, but is also still a tremendous commercial success. But that's very rare.

I think there will still be a few very rare examples. You realistically have to sell at least a couple thousand copies of a DVD to make your money back — there might be one example every few years. So yeah, I guess you could say in that sense, the full-length video is dead. But it depends on your definition.

Some people have sold videos on flash drives. Do you foresee any other innovations in alternative ways to sell physical copies of videos?

It's tough. There are some digital ways where people can rent or sell their video online. The USB key was kind of an interesting option. I've bought a couple myself, like the one WKND did — I bought it and I watched it, but then that thumb drive, you know, nobody has a shelf of thumb drives in their living room to display. So it doesn’t feel as long-lasting as a DVD. And I don't see any new physical option coming to life, you know? It just doesn't make sense. Who's gonna develop a new technology for physical media distribution? I guess VHS has become more popular in the last few years. But they’re actually kind of expensive to make nowadays. So they’re only for die hard collectors.

You may have watched Callum Paul perform this trick from *Kitsch* on a flash drive.

I think it was Pass~Port with that Kitsch video, they did a case that looked like a little DVD case, but it had a flash drive inside of it.

Yeah, that's a good idea. But then you run into the same problem where now most people with MacBooks don't even have a USB port. Apple’s changing that shit like every two years.

So are full-lengths dead?

I think there are those rare occasions where it could be commercially successful, but it's just got to be the right combination of things — a brand that’s as popular as it can be without feeling like it’s gone mainstream, a great filmmaker, a great team. The DVD as a business model is probably dead. But the art of the full-length video, I think it's always going to be here.

I'm not saying it's easy to make a seven-minute edit, but being a filmer who hasn’t made a full-length is like being a writer your whole life and never writing a book. Or like being a skater and never having your own video part. It's just kind of a rite of passage. I think that if you're working as a filmmaker in skateboarding, you should have to make a full-length video at least once!

I feel like that's the way you leave people with a feeling — a real lasting memory — and that’s an experience that you can't necessarily give people in 10 to 15 minutes. Walking out of the Spirit Quest premiere or Mindfield, it leaves you changed in a way. Watching a 12-minute edit on your laptop screen might get you stoked, but probably not on a level that you’ll continue feeling into the next day, week, etc. A powerful full-length can last in your mind almost forever.

When I hear Belle & Sebastian it takes me to the world Dan Magee created with his videos. When I hear De La Soul’s “Eye Know,” I’m immediately a 15-year-old kid watching Daewon kill it in his New World Order part. If you’re a filmmaker, I think you'd want to have that experience of having that effect on your audience. So I think the full-length will always be there as an important art form — for those bold enough to take on the challenge.

You were talking about the feeling of leaving a premiere versus watching something on your laptop — that’s something I think about all the time: how the screen you choose to watch a video on speaks to how much you care about the video and also how much you're going to remember it. Like, new local full-length, I'm going to try to go to the premiere. New full-length from a filmer I'm hyped on, I'm gonna throw it on the TV. New 12-minute video with skaters I’ve heard of, I'll at least do full screen on the laptop. And then if I’m looking at Instagram clips or, like, watching Gifted Hater, that's something I only do on my phone.

Totally, it’s interesting.

Which recent full-lengths give you hope for the future of the form?

Hmmm… I don’t see everything that comes out, but I’d say from the last 10 years the videos that grabbed me the most were probably Vase, Spirit Quest, the first Polar video… LENZ III is probably the most recent example of a powerful full length — just everything about the production is impressive. I also love what the guys do with Threads, their projects are super unique. And there was a rad full-length out of Croatia a few years ago called Finta that was super low budget but extremely creative and fun. It proved that you can make something inspiring on any budget and kind of from anywhere in the world.

Is the Full Length Dead? Let's Ask Josh Stewart