Where do concepts for skate shoes come from? One might think the ideation process around something so integral to the experience of ridign a skateboard would be rooted in ideas around stability, board feel, or flick capabilities, but what if it just starts with…watching The Sopranos? We caught up with Claude Leco, Senior Footwear Designer at Vans (it’s his second appearance on VP for those keeping track) to explain.

Village Psychic

Where are you right now?

Claude Leco

I'm here in Vietnam until Sunday. We're going to be riding motorcycles around all weekend, we’ve got a tour guide named Zoom Zoom. It’ll be fun. Then we go to Zhongshan in mainland China for another week, then Hong Kong for a day, and then back home.

I think we're supposed to be riding through the jungle and then going to small towns and around the mountains.

Village Psychic

This sounds so fun, although sleeping outside in that humidity might be…

Claude Leco

Ed, the head designer for Vans Snow was like, “I don't know if we're going to be taking a shower this weekend, dude.”

Village Psychic

Wow. Well, let's talk about the Mixxa. How did that shoe one come about? It's definitely a throwback.

Claude Leco

So that one has a good story. I was laid up at home with an injury, my knee was sprained for the second time in a few months, so I wasn't moving anywhere. I was watching The Sopranos and AJ from the Sopranos, he runs a lot of like sick gear, a lot of old skate stuff.

Village Psychic

You can catch him in some old Vans.

Claude Leco

There's this episode, it's called “Down Neck”. It's the episode where AJ gets drunk in gym class and throws up on his gym teacher's shoes. I was laid up on the couch and I was looking at the shoes AJ had on in that scene and I was like, “Are those Vans?” I just took a picture of the TV with my phone and I started looking around for them online.

I'm terrible at finding shit, especially anything that obscure. I searched around and I couldn’t find them, but I drew what I thought they’d look like based off of that photo on my phone – I have all these sketches on my iPad. I drew them as closely as I could just for fun.

Then, a year later we had a brief to do a shoe that was for a non-classic, something that's not vulcanized – a cupsole. Those sketches were my starting point, and everybody internally was sold on the idea that AJ wore these and they were pretty excited about where the inspiration came from.

Village Psychic

Did you ever find the original shoe?

Claude Leco

We did find the original shoe in an old catalog, a few months later after we'd already got a couple samples in. The shoe is called the Ehkks, like phonetically spelling out the letter X.

It was really sick one too, there were a bunch of different models on that same outsole and I actually found the other models first. I found this other shoe called the Destroyer and then Omar Hassan’s first shoe, which was also on that platform.

The outsole technology was called Impulse tech, and we kind of reinvented it and updated it a bit using a new last, a new shape, adding Sick Stick rubber, and DuraCap.

Village Psychic

I listened to a couple podcasts with Robert Isler, the guy who played AJ on the Sopranos - it was funny because he was talking about the gear that he wore on the show was like, when they started filming, they kind of really made him dress a certain way, but then after the show got going they kind of just let him wear whatever he was wearing in his regular life. That's why he has Pantera t-shirts and stuff. That's what he just wore when he wasn't acting - those were probably just shoes that he was wearing.

Claude Leco

That’s so dope.

Village Psychic

We talked about seeing the Sopranos episode, but where did this brief come from to make something around those lines?

Claude Leco

We have an insights team and they present a ton of research, they talk to us about trends in the market. One insight they had from interviewing people was that they feel like in skateboarding there isn't just one uniform, and that we're kind of getting bucketed into this one box of like only making vulcanized shoes. We're trying to push further than just making only vulcanized shoes. I mean, you've seen AVE and Rowan’s shoes – we’re trying to be a little bit more progressive.

People are wearing baggy pants, listening to different music, you know, just like a totally different vibe than I think most people associate Vans with. It was just kind of figuring out what would appeal to a different person that doesnt wear classic slip on.

VIllage Psychic

How was it working with Dime on Una’s version of the shoe?

Dime's a great partner to work with. They always bring in some great inspiration. They bring up old shoes and help us bring them back, but they're also really good at helping us create new things. They're always willing to push the boundaries a little bit.

Vince and Antoine are the guys that I end up working with the most. They would concept some stuff, send through concepts that Una liked, and then I'd kind of reinterpret them onto the shoe. So there's a lot of layers, stuff happens over at Dime and then it gets to us and then we figure out how to make it happen.

I thought people internally might not be down with another black shoe so I’m glad we got to do something special. There are a lot of details, and it since it’s a black shoe with a gum sole, it’s super wearable and it's easy just to throw on a pair with any outfit.

Village Psychic

Did you use 3D modeling for this project? We’ve seen a lot of footwear designers embracing it lately.

Claude Leco

This is the first time I’ve done it for a Vans project.

I went to school for industrial design, so I have a background in 3D modeling. Earlier in my career, I was doing a little bit more 3D modeling and I kind of fell off doing it for six years or so. I did athletic footwear, then switched to store design where I was utilizing a ton of 3D, and then back to footwear again, and then I got recruited to Vans. Since I was just stuck at home, I bought a headset and just started having fun with it. I was playing with everything. I used a bunch of different programs, some are pretty intuitive. It feels like anybody can get in there and have a concept really quickly.

Village Psychic

Does that help you concept what you're building? Or does it just create cool visuals?

Claude Leco

VR is quick and fast and that's huge. but the best part is that you can see your model in space, all the way around in 360 degrees. I feel like most of the time we're sketching shoes, we’ll do the lateral side or the outside of the shoe, then when we go into the tech pack process, we'll do a top view, the medial side, the inside, the heel view, and all that stuff. Some things get lost in translation because it's all 2D. You can get close, and the longer you do it, the closer you can get. When you sketch it all in 3D, it's so much easier to get all those details dialed early on.

Also, everything isn’t mirrored perfectly. You can actually adjust exactly where each line is hitting the inside of the foot and on the outside. I think people respond really well to being able to see a model float in 3D and it helps people that aren't necessarily creative people to visualize the shoe.

Village Psychic

What is the buy-in process like for getting the shoe made? How does the concept become a reality after you've put in all this work?

Claude Leco

We have a few designers working on a brief at one time and it will go all the way to final review and then our merchandising team works together to decide which direction is going to be the best. It does get a little bit competitive, but just showing up with a 3D model it was so easy to tell the story of the shoe. People were able to see it in 360, spinning in front of them. Not everyone can visualize a shoe off a CAD file. Especially when it gets a little bit more technical – on an athletic product, there are so many lines on a drawing that you don't necessarily see when it's on your foot.

Village Psychic

Is there a way that you're able to gauge the success of it from a design standpoint?

Claude Leco

Feedback wise, when it's out, it's when more people start asking for it.

But really, the way I gauge the success is that when we designed the shoe, the merchandising wanted to pull it in early. It was meant for later delivery, but people internally wanted it sooner. Then, we had a good collaborator, Dime, which is always a plus.

When I look at comments on social media posts of the shoe, when I see someone with a disgruntled comment, I check out that person and it's usually someone with that classic uniform. You’ve got your Dickies t-shirt and Authentics. So I'm like, “All right, perfect. This guy is not the consumer.”Then, you'll scroll down and somebody goes, “This is my new favorite shoe!” I look at who that person is on their Instagram, and it's a totally different vibe. Then I'm like, “We did it. This is the actual target audience right there.”

Village Psychic

The little flare pieces, where do those come from?

Claude Leco

There’s a lot going on. That's what I liked about it to start, but since it's a black shoe so they don't overpower the whole thing. I feel like some people could get turned off if every detail popped out. That allowed us to add a lot of layers of detail that we wouldn't necessarily put on anything else.

On the webbing we’ve got Una and Dime written on there on the vamp. We’ve got the clover, which is a nod to Una’s Irish heirtage. Then we’ve got the heart details, which she drew. So I think the clover, the hearts and then the updated branding from Dime was pretty cool too.

The process on this one was pretty straightforward.I sent Dime the CAD file and like a week or two later, their ideas came in, we had a meeting and everybody was just aligned out of the gate.It was just smooth, and it just made my life a lot easier.

I didn't get to meet Una throughout the whole process or talk to her directly, but I did meet her at The Bunt Jam in Toronto. It was so sick because when I met her, she was carrying the shoe box.

Village Psychic

So, I mean, the big question is, have you gotten to skate them now? Is your knee better?

Claude Leco

Yeah, yeah, I've skated them. They're good. I like them. Those are perfect for a nice pair of jorts or cargo shorts. Basically my AJ outfit. They’re really good for varial heels. Am I saying that right?

Village Psychic

Jorts? Oh, or varial heel?

Claude Leco

Yeah, what's the proper term?

Village Psychic

Heelflip shove is so cooked to me; it’s varial heel.

Village Psychic

The shoes hit a nice midpoint. If you compare them to shoes that were actually out in the early 2000s, which were crazy thick, it's noticeable how it they’re sized down a little bit and have a more contemporary fit. You still get some of that thickness, but it’s not overkill.

Claude Leco

A lot of the internal heights actually carried over from Rowan 2, I used those as a base to build the Mixxa.

Village Psychic

How does one carry over to the other? Because they're pretty different shoes.

Claude Leco

Since I've started, we've been taking the AVE PRO fit and modifying it for different projects because the fit was so good and it has evolved with every new project.

I had Rowans fresh off my feet, so I knew exactly what I would change, especially going in this direction. I wanted to add a little bit more volume in the toe and vamp just to give it a little bit more of a prouder toe. We adjusted just some of the internal heights, which you mentioned, just to make it not feel so big. We reduced a little bit of foam, which you noticed, but it's more just like refining as you go.

Village Psychic

In terms of the actual last making, how does that work?

Claude Leco

So we have a last expert that works for VF and he actually works over at Timberland. His name is Terry, and he is a legend in the footwear game. I can have one conversation with him about the shoe and he will spin a last up, he's fast too.

Then he'll send these super technical drawings of the last and honestly, half the things he says go straight over my head because he's so tech. He's like, “If you move this up, it's going push your foot forward. If you want it to feel like this, we need to adjust this. If you adjust the toe volume, you might want to think about pinching the heel a little bit.”

Terry is one of the few people in the world who can do that job at that level. When we have an idea, we can always tap into him. We do 3D printed lasts and wood molds, which are not actually wood,they're milled out of a dense foam. We do a few iterations of rapid prototyping to land on the best option

And then it's back to the computer, we don't necessarily have to print them every time. We get blueprints and once we get to a point to where we'll get a sample and we fit them. We find somebody who's a size nine, get some feedback and then if it's too tight in the toe, it's pinching here or there, we'll go back to Terry. Terry, he's the GOAT.

Village Psychic

What about colorways?

Claude Leco

The white / yellow blue - that's the prototype colorway, it was literally the colorway I made in VR We got a lot of colorways coming that are pretty cool. Honestly, I think the better colorways haven't been released yet or got dropped.

The Sopranos Inspired The Vans Mixxa - As Told By Claude Leco